When motorists believe they’ve paid for use of the road, they can be dangerous

Some motorists believe cyclists are lesser beings, and shouldn’t get in the way of cars. Why? Because of the shockingly widespread belief that cyclists don’t pay for roads.

In fact, we do. We all do. Everybody pays. Every tax-payer, that is. Road maintenance, road building and road design are all paid for out of general and local taxation. Motorists do not pay for roads. Road tax does not exist, has not existed since 1937. It’s now car tax, vehicle excise duty, a tax on emissions.

In the Spring edition of ‘Good Motoring’ from GEM Motoring Assist, columnist Jane King said cyclists were “itinerant road users.”

Hating on horse riders, too (they also ‘get in the way’ of cars), King wrote:

“You’d think that cyclists, being at one with the elements, would be able to deal sensibly with [passing motorists]. Unfortunately, certainly of late, this group seems to consist of real and exacting enthusiasts who behave as if every training trip is a stage of the Tour de France. And, as such they have a narrow blinkered vision of how the road should be used at that moment – which is purely for them. The motor vehicle must, and will, take at least second place. Sorry – who pays road tax, exactly?”

Such ignorance of what and who pays for roads can lead to violence against anybody not in a motorised vehicle. There are legions of examples of motorists abusing cyclists for “not paying road tax.” (Although horse riders don’t get tarred with the same brush: it’s obviously a money thing. Some motorists assume anybody on a bike is a pauper, and can’t possibly own a car, too. Which is daft because cars can be pretty cheap, a lot cheaper than decent top-flight bikes, for instance).

In Brazil on Friday, one motorist took the law into his own hands and smashed into a peaceful, beautiful Critical Mass ride.

This helmetcam footage is horrific, showing a speeding VW Golf ramming its way through 150 cyclists.

Brazilian drivers pay Imposto sobre Propriedade de Veículos Automotores or IPVA, our equivalent of VED. However, this site for Brazilian newcomers calls it a ‘road tax’.

Who knows what went through the mind of the 47-year old male driver seen causing the carnage in that footage? He was held up for a few minutes by folks on bikes and he suddenly lost it, rear-ending unsuspecting cyclists in a few seconds of madness. Apologist commenters on YouTube videos of the incident have said he had a sick passenger in the car and was desperate to get past the cyclists, who were blocking just one road among many in this Brazilian city.

Do those who decry Critical Mass as “irresponsible” say the same about fuel protestors who block roads? Or how about taxi drivers blockading London for an hour? “We are sorry that we have to block the streets to make our voices heard, but we feel we have no other option,” said a London cabby last year, who very possibly rants when he sees the few minutes of disruption caused when Critical Mass rides past.

Thankfully, it appears none of the hit cyclists were killed, but they could have been. Many were badly injured and there was an ugly, sickening pile of smashed bikes. The driver absconded, but not before reportedly removing his number plates. So, did police chase him down? No, they are waiting for him to turn himself in, a promise made by the 47 year olds lawyer. In Brazilian media reports, the police are still calling the carnage an “accident.”

Back to the UK…
Motorists do not own the roads, nor do cyclists, or equestrians. We all have the right to pass and re-pass on public roads. Those motorists who truly believe their annual car tax payment is a fee to use roads are 100 percent wrong. Some who believe this, begrudgingly allow cyclists to “share the roads, paid for by motorists” but who knows how many close-shaves – the buzzing of cyclists – is due to this mistaken belief? Too many. Way too many.

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iPayRoadTax.com is an ironically-named campaign supporting the road rights of cyclists. The message that cyclists have equal rights on the roads is carried on iPayRoadTax t-shirts and jerseys.

  • SoTyred

    very well put, especially the Back to the UK paragraphs

  • Tramsol

    Carton – I’m far from an apologist but a lot of cyclists get very worried and angry with a small element who ride on Critical Mass who make a positive effort to create the greatest nuisance to those using motor vehicles and in doing so create the sort of confrontation that will erupt on rare occasions to red haze behaviour from BOTH sides.nnI think that the London CM folk should observe a similar mass journey home along the streets of the City by another group of road users on wheels who travel at a speeds inappropriate for the footway – line skaters. This massive body of humanity glides smoothly along through and with the traffic clearly showing their right to be on the road and with a persuasive mass presence, establishing their right to sufficient road space. Cyclists and marchers would do well to observe how a group shows the world they exist without creating a mass of new enemies. nnMarchers – particularly those in these parts with a desire to celebrate events of 313 years ago have in recent years recognised that you make few friends if you beat up anyone who needs to ‘cross the walk’ when said walk blocks the street for 30 minutes or more. Maybe some of those who see CM as a confrontation with the motorist need to get their heads sorted out as much as the car users of the ‘Clarkson’ “run them off the road” mindset.

  • http://www.quickrelease.tv carltonreid

    I’ve never been on a Critical Mass and can certainly see the point of view that such rides are counter-productive but, come on, they’re rolling events, over in just a few minutes. rnrnMotorists held up by a bunch of cyclists will soon be held up by traffic lights and, most obviously, other motorists.rnrnWhat’s the sense of getting one sick passenger to hospital – if that is the case, and I’ve not yet seen any evidence for this – if you hospitalise a load of people on the way there? Was that road the only one in town? No, of course not. The driver could have taken a different route. Another YouTube commenter said the driver lost his temper when his car was “tapped”. rnrnThere was no justification of any sort for the ramming of those Brazilian CMers. Even if they were rampaging through the streets smashing cars, that wouldn’t be reason enough to touch them with any part of a car, never mind accelerate towards them in the sure knowledge they’d be hit, injured and possibly killed.rnrnWhether or not Critical Mass is an effective form of protest should be an argument for another day. This driver has anger issues that need his immediate removal from the streets.

  • Anonymous

    There seems to be an increasing number of angry, opinionated but woefully misinformed people out there. I blame the media and in particular a group of alleged ‘newspapers’ who seem to have forgotten that the purpose of a newspaper is to inform their readership. Instead, in a cynical drive to increase circulation, they indulge in a manipulation of their readership and invent stories. The first principal appears to be never let the facts spoil a good story. In-fact, their target seems to be to enrage their readers by lying to them. But as soon as one checks the facts, their stories are revealed as essentially a tissue of carefully crafted lies.nnThe trouble is that their gullible readership don’t check the stories, they fall for the lies, hook, line and sinker and get irate.nnA typical story is: Why are scientists so stupid? The answer is of course, that scientists aren’t stupid. But such pseudo-journalism leads many to hold a widespread distrust of science, which is increasingly important in our modern world. Most people have little or no inkling of the amount of science that our daily life relies upon, but in their ignorance these people have no idea of quite how little they really know.nnThere are two types of people in the world:nThose who know little and know they know little, and those who know even less, but are so deluded they think they know a lot.

  • http://twitter.com/tmana Brenda Bell

    From the footage, this looks like a deliberate attempt to take out as many cyclists as possible (perhaps taking Clarkson’s “driving orders” a bit too literally?). If the driver were indeed trying to go quickly through what can only be described as a “rolling road block”, would he not have honked his horn to request slower vehicles to clear the path? nnThat said, I’m as concerned as Tramsol that Critical Mass rides are designed to be more confrontational than productive (if you’re going to tie up the entire width of the road, you really need a parade permit — regardless of whether you have twenty cars or horsemen going at 5-10mph, 100 cyclists, or 50 marchers). That some motorist would decide to demonstrate this by taking things into his own hands was only a matter of time. Sadly, I don’t think it will do more than inflame passions on both sides of the “road use” debate.

  • Iain K

    That is shocking, and it seems clear who the Brazillian police are siding with… Even in this country it would only be dangerous driving so more of a holiday than a sentence if caught…nnIs a group of cyclists any worse than a convoyof lorries crawling along motorways? Isn’t the whole point of CM that it’s a mass gathering? a long line of cyclists wouldn’t have the same impact, although I suspect the motorists would impact on the line… Having seen emergency vehicles having to move through the SkyRide crowds I suspect had the motorist proceeded slowly and beeping the horn he’d probably be able to pass, or access a sideroad, but driving like that deserves treatment as attempted mass murder.

  • http://www.quickrelease.tv carltonreid

    Google Maps of the street in question show that the driver had lots of options to break free. He chose not to. He chose to be aggressive.rnrnPre-ride footage of this Critical Mass shows it’s a pretty friendly affair.rnrnRiding en masse through a town or city is disruptive for a few minutes but it’s really little different to the sort of constant disruptions caused by motorised traffic all the time.rnrnIf cyclists get confrontational that’s not welcome, but it’s often provoked by motorists trying to squeeze through or ‘nudge’ CMers. Do motorists try to nudge taxi drivers taking part in their Critical Mass style blockades? Do motorists get shirty with HGV drivers blocking roads during fuel protests?rnrnYes, motorists may curse under their breath when confronted by blockading taxi drivers and HGV drivers but they don’t vote with their wheels like they do with cyclists.

  • Marcus

    Using that retarded logic then children should be denied healthcare, education and anything else provided by the state for that matter as they don’t pay tax. nnn

  • http://twitter.com/twoseat Paul Harris

    Can I suggest you take out the the bit starting “who very possibly..”? The argument against this kind of thinking is strong enough that we don’t need to assign opinions to others – that cabbie may “very possibly” be an ardent cyclist who maintains sustrans routes at the weekend as well.

  • http://www.quickrelease.tv carltonreid

    True. And that’s why I stressed the ‘possibly’ bit.

  • http://www.quickrelease.tv carltonreid

    Logic and reality don’t usually come together in the ‘get off the roads, cyclists don’t pay road tax’ debate.

  • Anonymous

    I have said this on the forums, and on the Guardian site. There are people defending this driver, sharing his mentality, yet in all reality it was an act of psychopathic behaviour.

  • Pleasedontpesterme

    The moron is a killer with no regard for human life. Clarkson must admire him for doing what Clarkson urges the misguided, moronic petrol heads in the UK to do. Eugenics seems a rather attractive solution to me!

  • Mr B J Mann

    Students and many others don’t pay Council Tax. Very little of Council Tax is spent on roads.u00a0Main roads are paid foru00a0out of central funds. Local roadsu00a0are funded by government grants. Much or most of that is diverted into things likeu00a0traffic “calming”, road narrowing, pavement widening, andu00a0even road closures, plus “related” expenditure such as benches and flower pots.u00a0Motorists pay nearly u00a350 BILLION each and EVERY year in EXTRA additional taxes ON TOP of their ORDINARY citizens taxes in Road RELATED Taxes.nnWell, spotted, these AREN’T “hypothecated” to roads.nnBut if you managed to drive motorists off the roads and onto public transport, do you think ANY government would cut the NHS budget by u00a350 BILLION pa so that they could maintain roads expenditure to maintain roads for cyclists?!?!?!nnAs for most cyclists are drivers:nnThat would be except for children, impoverished students, their car hating teachers and lecturers, and all those motorist loathing kamikaze cyclists who keep ranting on about spedophiles in their one ton killing machines.nnIncidentally, do you realise that light, slow, green and cuddly cyclists kill so many pedestrians per passenger mile the figures are in the same ball park as for those eveil speedophile motorists in their one ton killing machines?!?!?nnAnd try checking out the ratios for cyclists killed in accidents with other cyclists!!!!!!

  • Mr B J Mann

    PS There are 30 million drivers in the UK, and probably 3 million unlicensed car users.nnAnd it’s a well know fact that those that commit real car crimes (as opposed to creeping safely over an artificially low or even arbitrarily lowered limit), and even those who commit antisocial driving acts such as parking in disabled bays, are usually real non motoring criminals, and perhaps socio, and even psychopathic.nnSo if you’re going to insist on holding mass rolling roadbloacks to deliberately gridlock cities and cause as much disruption as possible to motorists:nnDon’t be surprised, and don’t complain, if one of the “motorists” you wind up turns out not to be someone’s dear sweet aunt without a point on their license, but an unlicensed, uninsured psycopathic murderer in a stolen getaway vehicle.

  • Mr B J Mann

    “We all have the right to pass and re-pass on public roads.”nnAnd you DON’T have the right to use the road if you try to use it without lawful authority or excuse.nnAnd you CERTAINLY don’t have the right to OBSTRUCT the Highway.nnAnd the faxt you’re moving doesn’t alter the fact you are causing an obstruction.nnSee the Cyclists section of the Highway Code (you DO realise there is such a thing, don’t you?!):nnFor some helpful hints on ways you could be considered to be obstructing the Highway.nnOr using it without lawful authority and excuse.nnOh, and just because the police rarely take action against cyclists (or “racing” HGVs, or dawdling motorists), it doesn’t mean that you’re not breaking several laws.nnSo don’t complain about the Brazilian police:nnPerhaps they decided to treat that motorist like the British police treat cyclists.nnAnd before you start:nnCyclists kill two or three pedestrians (and more cyclists) in a typical year:nnHow many are jailed for anything, never mind murder?!?!

  • Mr B J Mann

    So, to summarise:nnRoad RELATED Taxu00a0DOES exist, and amounts to nearly u00a350 BILLION pa. While motorists do not pay directly for the roads, if the Treasury lost that u00a350 BILLION expenditure on roads would stop completely. So, no, roads are NOT paid for via general and local taxation.nnAnd why is bicycle registration an expensive folly?nnIf, as you claim, most cyclists are motorists, all you need to do is pass a law making them have their registration number printed on their jersey, and spend a tiny bit registering the remainder.nnSimples as they like to say today!nnAnd remember, when cyclists believe theyu2019ve paid for use of the road, they can be dangerous.nnAnd when they hit pedestrians they are pretty much as dangerous as motorists.nnBut not as dangerous as unlicensed, uninsured psychopathic joy-riders caught up in a critical mass rolling gridlock!nn

  • http://www.quickrelease.tv carltonreid

    BobnnYou clearly have some anger management issues here. Calm down, breathe deeply. Once you get more oxygen to your brain, dig up the stats to back up your claims about deaths caused by cyclists (and your other wild claims). nnYou’ll be digging a long time.

  • http://www.quickrelease.tv carltonreid

    BobnnYou clearly have some anger management issues here. Calm down, breathe deeply. Once you get more oxygen to your brain, dig up the stats to back up your claims about deaths caused by cyclists (and your other wild claims). nnYou’ll be digging a long time.

  • http://www.quickrelease.tv carltonreid

    Your views are the kind that are usually written under the protection of a pseudonym. nnI assume you’re the managing director of UCD, the Notts shop-fitting company you’re emailing from, because anybody in a lower position than this certainly wouldn’t risk putting their name to such views.

  • http://www.quickrelease.tv carltonreid

    Your views are the kind that are usually written under the protection of a pseudonym. nnI assume you’re the managing director of UCD, the Notts shop-fitting company you’re emailing from, because anybody in a lower position than this certainly wouldn’t risk putting their name to such views.

  • http://twitter.com/lucullus Tim Lennon

    Now Carlton, it makes perfect sense that, as a cyclist, you should make sure every piece of your clothing is printed with your bicycle registration. Oh, do you have more than one bike? Better print them all on. Or get lots of jerseys.Don’t forget if you wear a coat you’ll need to mark that, too. All your coats, of course, just in case … nnOr maybe you personally should be registered, and have to carry your ‘Ok to cycle’ ID all the time. maybe tattooed on your forehead so people know what to do to you when you’re walking around …

  • http://twitter.com/SingletrackM1nd Casey

    Aside from the fact that your assertions are patentlyu00a0ridiculous, you do realize that everyone just thinks you’re an asshole, right?u00a0

  • http://twitter.com/bassjunkieuk Mark Skrzypczyk

    Cyclists kill 2-3 pedestrians each year? Really?? Well I suppose that stacks up quite nicely against a 2-3 pedestrians killed each DAY by motor vehicles and the thousands that are left either seriously injured each year?nMy suggestion would be to stop commenting on here as you’ve clearly not got the first clue about any of this….

  • http://twitter.com/twoseat Paul Harris

    “Incidentally, do you realise that light, slow, green and cuddly cyclists kill so many pedestrians per passenger mile the figures are in the same ball park as for those eveil speedophile motorists in their one ton killing machines?!?!?”nnI looked into the maths on this, and if it’s true it would mean the average cyclist is doing 400 miles per year, or about 45 minutes per cyclist per week. u00a0Given that they’re cycling so little, why are you getting so upset about them?

  • Bristol Traffic

    > And when they hit pedestrians they are pretty much as dangerous as motorists.nnWhat is it about the equations of kinetic energy that you understand better than Newton? :nnThe energy in a collision is proportional the square of the velocity and the mass of the entities colliding. nE = (m * (v*v))/2. nnCars have more mass, hence more energy in a collision. A 70kg cyclist and 15kg frame would have 1/10 the kinetic energy of a car, when travelling at the same speed. nn30 kmh = 8.3 metres/second, squared =u00a0 which *(100/2) = 3,470 Jounes of kinetic energy in the bicycle. The car weighing 10 times would deliver about 34,700 Joules in a collision with any stationary object: 10xnnWhen travelling faster -say at 50km rather than 30 kmh, the car would deliver 100,000 J.nnThat’s why 20 mph/30kmh limits in town save lives; the car would have 1/3 the energy in a collision.nnPlease come back to this article once you’ve done your A level maths.nnRegarding the risk cyclists pose to pedestrians per mile, try measuring in hours instead. Your metrics of miles driven include motorway miles which skew the results as the cars are driving long distances fast. Ideally you’d discount all mway hours and measure in hours driven in town for both vehicle types. nnn

  • http://twitter.com/69erGathering Chris Garrison

    You can’t teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig.u00a0nnThis is the same analogue that one should apply when trying to educate Mr. Managing Director of UCD about VED, injuries caused by cyclists, and the big picture notion the aggression he undoubtedly has towards cyclist while he’s driving is actually directed at another human being.u00a0nnAttitudes like his are the most difficult to swallow when people like him demonstrate such an enormous lack of humanity. I bet he’d swerve to avoid hitting a deer, though.u00a0

  • http://www.quickrelease.tv carltonreid

    He’s not the MD, mind. But you’d think he was untouchable because he often writes on forums using his real name, and real address. He appears to be a health and safety officer for UCD, a Notts shop-fitting company. Am trying to get this confirmed.

  • Mr B J Mann

    Tut, tut, tut.nn”Bob”You clearly have some anger management issues here. Calm down, breathe deeply”nnSo listing facts is a sign of anger management issues?nnI’d love to have your professional diagnosis on the home page of this site if that’s how you interpret trying to educate people to the simple truth.nnPerhaps you’d be better off analysing your own response to my post?nnn”Once you get more oxygen to your brain, dig up the stats to back up your claims about deaths caused by cyclists (and your other wild claims).”"You’ll be digging a long time.”nnThat may have been true once, when you would have to trawl Hansard for parliamentary questions and answers to collate the data.nnBut for a few years now they’ve been included in the national road accident stats.nnTry digging them out yourself before digging yourself any deeper into your hole.

  • Mr B J Mann

    > And when they hit pedestrians they are pretty much as dangerous as motorists.What is it about the equations of kinetic energy that you understand better than Newton? :n………Please come back to this article once you’ve done your A level maths.nThanks for the Physics lesson, but we don’t live in a physics lab.nnWe live in the real world.nnA world where you have to have an accident BEFORE the laws of physics come into play.nnWhich means that Behavioural Science is more important.nnRegarding the risk cyclists pose to pedestrians per mile, try measuring in hours instead. Your metrics of miles driven include motorway miles which skew the results as the cars are driving long distances fast. Ideally you’d discount all mway hours and measure in hours driven in town for both vehicle types.Try measuring it any way you like, it doesn’t alter the fact that the FACTS I posted seems to have hit several raw nerves.nnThe truth hurts.nnTry accepting that in the majority of cases it’s the “victim” (be they motorist, cyclist or pedestrian), who is to blame, or at least could have easily avoided the unfortunate consequences (try reading the Cyclists and Pedestrians Sections of the Highway Code – follow them and it’s almost impossible to be a victim!).nnThe simple facts I posted are simple facts, instead of shooting the messenger, try thinking why you disliked hearing them so much.n

  • Mr B J Mann

    I’ve often posted “controversial” facts and, by a strange co-incidence, soon after had my house egged, porn email sent to a family computer, locks damaged, “picked up” surprisingly large numbers of nails inu00a0the tyres of a car used to transport kids on the motorway, etc, etc.nnIs there a special reason why you are trying to track me down, publicise my contact details, phone my workplace, etc, etc.nnDo I need to be worried?nnHave you come across me on other forums?nnIs it you who has the “anger management” issues?nnDo I need to be reporting you to the police?

  • Mr B J Mann

    Or, alternatively, he just needs one registration, from one car, on one hi-viz jacket (he does wear them, doesn’t he?)!

  • Mr B J Mann

    “Cyclists kill 2-3 pedestrians each year? Really??”Yes.Well I suppose that stacks up quite nicely against a 2-3 pedestrians killed each DAY by motor vehicles and the thousands that are left either seriously injured each year?So you’re saying that all pedestrians hit by cyclists are killed, then?!?!Motorists do of the order of a hundred BILLION miles PA (yes, in the UK).”Do the Math.”n”My suggestion would be to stop commenting on here as you’ve clearly not got the first clue about any of this…. “Whereas you have made it your lifelong study?

  • Mr B J Mann

    So much for reasoned debate and logical argument.nnHow do you even know I drive, never mind thatI’m not a cyclist.nnAnd who is showing the lack of humanity?nnThe person trying to establish the real cause of so called “car-nage” so that lives can be saved?nnOr the one who tries to bury the truth, regardless of the cost, to maintain the “purity” of their world view!

  • http://www.quickrelease.tv carltonreid

    BobnnYou chose to leave comments on this site. They are disturbing comments.nnThis is normal for trolls, but it’s highly unusual for somebody to use their real name, and to use their work email account.nnIt appears you are well known on other forums – Daily Mail, pistonheads, Nottingham newspapers.nnYour views are worrying ones to hold given the fact you operate dangerous machinery on the public highway. Your workplace said you are a health and safety officer. Wow. Just wow.nnIf I was a cyclist on the route below in Notts, I’d be very worried. nnhttp://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr=Basford+Express,+Valley+Road,+Nottingham&daddr=Southwell,+Nottinghamshire+NG25+0TX,+UK&hl=en&sll=53.076952,-0.940563&sspn=0.010699,0.016608&geocode=FehpKAMdyBLu_yFndvkL6UotsQ%3BFdjjKQMd7aXx_ylnJHZhULZ5SDFScKvTbzZbvw&vpsrc=0&mra=ls&t=m&z=12nn

  • Mr B J Mann

    I posted this earlier.nnI wonder if it should have been directed at Chris, rather than Carlton?nnOr perhaps it should be both?nnOr to everyone!nn———————nnI’ve often posted “controversial” facts and, by a strange co-incidence, soon after had my house egged, porn email sent to a family computer, locks damaged, “picked up” surprisingly large numbers of nails inu00a0the tyres of a car used to transport kids on the motorway, etc, etc.nnIs there a special reason why you are trying to track me down, publicise my contact details, phone my workplace, etc, etc.nnDo I need to be worried?nnHave you come across me on other forums?nnIs it you who has the “anger management” issues?nnDo I need to be reporting you to the police?

  • Mr B J Mann

    Well, from the assertion that nearly all cyclists are drivers (children, impoverished students, their car hating teachers and lecturers, kamikaze cyclists who think that motorists are speedophiles in one ton killing machines – note, I never said I though all cyclists were like that) it would seem that this site counts everyone whose ever sat on a cycle as a cyclists, even if they haven’t cycled for decades.nnSo that 400 miles would be a gross over-estimate.nnMotorists do around a 100 BILLION miles.nnThat’s PA.nnIn the UK.nnFrom official stats.nnFeel free to dig out the corresponding figures for cyclists.nn(And note I used the per passenger mile figure. Or are you going to argue that if a car full of people swap to cyles they’ll just be balanced on the one, Asian style).

  • Mr B J Mann

    Oh, I think I’ve realised what people here are thinking.nnAnd how they think.nnnDo you understand what an assertion is?nnnWell, I wonder where cyclists get their image from?

  • Bristol Traffic

    >Thanks for the Physics lesson, but we don’t live in a physics lab.nActually we do live in a world governed by physics. Gravity, that kind of thing.nn>A world where you have to have an accident BEFORE the laws of physics come into play.n>Which means that Behavioural Science is more important.nAnd game theory, psychology, standard human reflexes, the inability of people to be attentive, the tendency for everyone to overestimate their abilities, risk compensation.u00a0nnBut you aren’t a psychologist (neither am I, though I work with them), and you don’t know physics, statistics, probability, game theory and the like (disclaimer: I do this for a living)nn>The truth hurts.nWhich is why you deny it.u00a0n>The simple facts I posted are simple facts, instead of shooting the messenger, try thinking why you disliked hearing them so much.nnIf they were valid, they wouldn’t be so bad.u00a0

  • http://www.quickrelease.tv carltonreid

    Department for Transport figures: pedestrians killed by cyclists riding on pavements = three deaths recorded between 1999 and 2009.No pedestrian deaths caused by cyclists on roads or pavements in 2009, the last full year for which figures are available.However, there have been a couple of deaths caused by cyclists since 2009 and these were very widely reported by the media, as though such deaths are commonplace when they are, in fact, incredibly rare.u00a0Cyclists who kill pedestrians have been jailed and fined:http://road.cc/content/news/33439-new-legislation-would-target-cyclists-who-kill-or-injure-pedestrians

  • http://twitter.com/69erGathering Chris Garrison

    If you weren’t presenting what you consider to be fact in such an antagonistic way, then perhaps people would be more willing to listen to your ‘reasoned debate and logical argument’.u00a0nnAs it stands, you are being neither reasonable, nor logical in making your case.u00a0nnInstead, you are suggesting that somehow, *I* am demonstrating a lack of humanity, and are now vaguely threatening to report us to the police based on absolutely no proof or evidence that anyone associated with this forum has in the past violated your personal property, or has plans to do so in the future.u00a0nnAt this point, you continuing to post here, and others continuing to reply is counter productive. Although it’s entirely within your rights to continue spewing your misguided vitriol here, perhaps you should associate yourself with the like-minded individuals you find on forums elsewhere.u00a0

  • Mr B J Mann

    So, an interest in getting to the truth about safety is disturbing and worries you?nnAnd you are trying even harder to identify how people can “interact” with me.nnPerhaps to help show me the error of my ways.nnThanks for that.nnIf anything happens, I’ll know who to blame.nnAnd report to the police.nnI should have spotted your obsessiveness from your website.nnBut things clearly go deeper than that.nnNext stop, cop shop.

  • Mr B J Mann

    Antagonistic?nnTry reading the website (the near u00a350 BILLION motorists pay in road related taxes aren’t hypothecated, so they have no rights, we do, especially to bring cities to gridlock once a month?!?!).nnThis “forum”.nnAnd especially the replies to my posts.nnnYou called me a pig.nnClaimed I couldn’t be educated.nnInvestigated and publicised personal identification, contact and locationu00a0details (Cyber stalking, cyber harrassment).Asserted that I wasu00a0″undoubtedly” aggressive towards cyclists while driving (legal libel).Asserted that Iu00a0″demonstrate such an enormous lack of humanity.” (another libel).nnnAs for “vaguely threatening to report us to the police based on absolutely no proof or evidence that anyone associated with this forum has in the past violated your personal property, or has plans to do so in the future”.nnThere’s enough criminal activity on this thread alone to go to the police with, never mind evidence of potential future plans.nnBut, unlike some, fortunately for you, I prefer reasoned debate.nnSomething that is clearly alien to the followers of this site.

  • http://www.quickrelease.tv carltonreid

    Dear Bob Mann (your employer said you were Bob Manovich – not too sure of the spelling)nnI am an investigative journalist. It’s my job to find facts, including working out the identity of a person with such inflammatory views.nnIt doesn’t take much investigating to find out your views on climate change, cyclists, trams in Nottingham and other things which you appear to think hinder your right to drive.nnIt’s clear you delight in trolling on forums, it’s just unusual you do so using your real name.nnFor that you should be applauded. If only more trolls were so up front.nnI can see you don’t just troll on bike and tram forums you also upset fellow travellers on motoring forums. Heck, there’s even an entry on Urban Dictionary for one of your other forum names. Your real first name? Bogush.nnhttp://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bogush&defid=2180736

  • Mr B J Mann

    Take one example (ask your psychology colleagues, and drag in some neuroscientists), your eyes don’t see anything like what you think they see.nnSome researchers claim that an “inexperienced” motorist won’t spot a new hazard for 10 seconds after they’ve glanced down at their speedo.nnAt 30mph isn’t that effectively 130 yards driving blind?nnOh, and “inexperienced” was equated to under 100,000 miles of driving.nnSo, kid runs out ten seconds after “novice” glances at his speedo to check he’s doing a physics lab “safe” 29mph.nnHow safe is that?nnAnd what difference does the physics make?nnn———-nnOr here’s the reverse:nnWhy do we ban a just “drunk” driver caught momentarily over the limit for a year?nnAnd how do we treaty someone who’s car failed it’s MOT on bald tyres, dodgy steering, and ineffective brakes, whose been driving it like that for months even after the MOT?nn———–nnOr the real killer:nnTrain drivers have no steering at all, do the ton past overcrowded station platforms, through busy crossings, and along stretches of track where the rail authorities know there is a high risk of pedestrians on the track, despite taking miles to stop.nnAnd kill up to 300 pedestrians a year (and please, no humanitarian stuff about they deserved to die, they were suicides – under half, or they had no right to be on the rail-road – aren’t we taught to reclaim the roads?).nnAnd the excuse is they were going too fast to stop!nn———nnSafety doesn’t come into transport safety, it’s all hysteria and special pleading.nnNow, remind me why you object to my posts?

  • http://www.quickrelease.tv carltonreid

    EVERYBODYnnBe aware that Bob Mann/Bogush/BJ Mann/ Bogush Manovich eventually always brings up trains as killers. It’s his Godwin’s Law. No matter how many times people cite the actual stats he ignores and says cars aren’t the real killers, it’s trains.nnI am sorry my site attracted him and that he’s taken up our time. Even hardcore petrolheads soon learn to steer clear of BJ Mann.

  • Mr B J Mann

    Still trying to give your mates more and more contact details for me?nnWhat are you planning!nnAnd where have I said cars don’t kill?nnAnd I’m all for harsher punishement for dangerous driving, dangerous speeding, drunk driving.nnButu00a0that doesn’tu00a0mean I should exonerate cyclists or train drivers like you do!nnYou’re saying that trains, with a few thousand drivers, on 11,000 miles of track, killing 250 to 300 pedestrians a year (that’s around a thousand times the rate per driver!), aren’t killers?nnI’m sorry I was “attracted” to your site by someone who claimed there was useful information here.nnClearly he is of the same mind-set as you.

  • Mr B J Mann

    As I’ve already pointed out, they weren’t recorded until recently.nnJust because there are no deaths published in the official records doesn’t mean they didn’t happen, or even that they aren’t on the records somewhere.nnYou’ll have to trawl Hansard for the full figures.

  • Mr B J Mann

    If you were to do some proper research, without your blinkers on, you might find figures like this:nn1992 – 3n1993 – 4 n1994 – 4 n1995 – 4 n1996 – 2 n1997 – 2n1998 – 2n1999 – 5n2000 – 3n2001 – 0n2002 – 4n2003 – 4n2004 – 1n2005 – 3n2006 – 3n2007 – 4nnNote, you migh find figures vary slightly, depending on when they were compiled, because of iinformation filtering through, people dying the following year to the accident, etc.

  • Mr B J Mann

    So, are that many fined and publicised, never mind jailed?nnOh, and have a trawl through Hansard for the numbers of cyclists killed by cyclists.nnIf you dare!